Why do lesbians hate bisexuals?
April 11th, 2008
Are you a Gold Star Lesbian? What do you mean you don’t know what one is? It’s a lesbian who’s never slept with a man, of course. Gold stars for the pure, no stars for the contaminated but repentant, and as for those greedy bisexuals… Well, what about those bisexuals? Those betraying, confused, promiscuous, untrustworthy fence-sitters that crept into the jolly LGBT acronym but will never know how it feels to be truly oppressed.
What a joke. Bi folk get it twice of course – as well as straightforward homophobia, they also have to face biphobia from both the straight and gay community.
But what, exactly, is biphobia? Cheryl Dobinson from bi zine The Fence describes it simply as “any type of discrimination, oppression or prejudice that is directed at or specifically affects bisexual people.” The ‘hilarious’ Gold Star Lesbian label, for example. And if it’s not prejudice masquerading as humour, it’s prejudice wrapped in ignorance.
“There’s this presumption that bisexuality is a transient phase that you dip in and out of,” explains Leeds student Laura Nieurzyla. “Like the time my mum asked me if I was ‘still’ bisexual because I was currently involved with a man, or when my gay friend seriously asked me if I would identify as gay if my next relationship was with a woman. It isn’t meant nastily, but can still get a bit tedious.”
So let’s set some bi myths uh, straight. Yes, some people genuinely do feel attraction to both men and women. No, it’s not a phase, or greed, or indecision. No, they don’t all need to have a boyfriend and a girlfriend at the same time. Yes, they are just as faithful as anyone else. No, you’re not likely to catch more diseases from them, because no, they’re not any more likely to be promiscuous.
And the greatest myth of all? That there just aren’t many bisexual women around. Actually, in a recent US study, two-thirds of self-defined lesbians reported feelings of attraction to men. Yikes.
Bisexual lesbians
The study published in Explaining Diversity in the Development of Same-Sex Sexuality Among Young Women by Lisa M. Diamond and Ritch C. Savin-Williams involved interviewing 100 women over two years. The scientists found that two thirds of the 34 women who identified as lesbian reported periodic attractions to men.
One study is interesting but not terribly statistically significant; however, it’s not the only report to find that self-identified lesbians sometimes feel attraction to men. A separate paper published in 1994, for example, found that of the 4.4% of American women who reported experiencing same-sex attraction, 94% were also attracted to men.
So if lesbians are sometimes attracted to men, does it follow that straight women are sometimes attracted to other women? Yes. In fact possibly as many as 84% of heterosexual women experience same-sex attraction. However, as Lisa Diamond notes, “A reliable answer to this question is elusive, given the stigma that prevents heterosexual women from readily acknowledging same-sex attractions.”
But back up. What does this all mean? How can 66% of lesbians - let alone 95% - be attracted to men? That would make them bisexual for a start, not lesbian, surely? Well, no actually.
Lesbian subculture
‘Lesbian’ means so much more than just being attracted to people of the same gender as yourself. It’s a subculture. You might not like everything or everyone that shares your subculture, but there is still an underlying solidarity and strength to it that we are all part of. Being a lesbian means knowing that there are bars, towns, TV programmes and haircuts that are yours. Yes they might be crap, but they’re yours. They’re ours. So is it so difficult to understand why so many lesbians are unwilling to give all this up, just because they sometimes fancy men?
“I don’t think I would ever tell my mates I sometimes fancy blokes,” explains a woman in her twenties who has asked not to be named. “I know they’d think I was ‘letting down the side’ and I’m scared I’d lose them.”
“I think that the idea of bisexuality can be very threatening and challenging to lesbians,” adds Cheryl. “Some lesbians feel that bisexual women are traitors or betrayers because we can love women, but can also ‘sleep with the enemy.’”
Lesbianism as a political rather than an emotional or social act definitely gives a new slant to some lesbians’ feelings about bisexuality. As Cheryl explains, “there can be concerns about the political implications [of bisexuality], with some lesbians seeing bisexuals as blurring boundaries/muddying the waters and potentially weakening the queer political cause. I’ve heard this called something like ‘diluting’ the movement.
“Oh, and a favorite [stereotype] of mine is the idea that bisexual women could be lesbians if only we were stronger or more politically aware or what-have-you. Sort of assuming that we need to have our consciousnesses raised kind of thing, or that we’re ‘weak’ lesbians.”
Getting over it
Much as homophobia is often an indication of latent homosexual desire, perhaps gay and straight people are sometimes biphobic because they haven’t dealt with their own bisexual desires, and the thought of getting with a guy/girl both attracts and repels them.
But how can we overcome our internalized biphobia without losing our lesbian cultural identity? The answer might be to stop thinking so rigidly about sexuality. Several social scientists point to the concept of a ‘lesbian continuum’ as a better way of interpreting female sexuality than the strict boundaries of gay, bi or straight, a theory that has been absorbed by some LGBT people under the umbrella term queer.
Regardless of whether you believe that you might be a teeny bit attracted to men yourself, or whether the idea appalls your sense of what it is to be a lesbian, the fact remains that there are plenty of women out there who identify as bisexual, and experiencing biphobia is having a negative effect on their health.
Cheryl is a queer health researcher as well as a zine writer. “I can tell you that on many mental health measures - depression, anxiety, self-harm, suicidality – research shows that bisexual people tend to report higher rates than both straight and gay people,” she says.
“I think that the reasons are primarily related to biphobia, and that we should all be aware of this and be concerned about the damage that biphobia can have.” In other words, no it’s not ‘harmless fun’. And please, no more with the lame Gold Star jibes.
Great article - I hope every lesbian I know reads it. I find biphobia in the gay community ridiculously hypocritical and wish it would just shut up. See - I am so tired of it that that is the most I can muster up to say.
Commenting as a bisexual women - it takes some time to grow into it and feel comfortable with it but now that I do, I really can’t be any other way. It’s also clear to me that there is a sexuality spectrum which shifts with time and even environment and trying to deny it or repress it can be damaging.
Wow, this was such a well rounded and well written article. I recently posted a little blog about bisexual lesbians and was surprised at some of the emails I got! Great article!
Great article, it reflects so much of what I have experienced. It has taken me 20 years to get my confidence to become a ‘bi-activist’ because my initial experiences on the scene were so awful (including being physically attacked by a woman). Things are gradually changing and every article like this that makes someone think through their prejudice is a step forward.
I’m not sure why, but I really like the idea of the political implications of bisexuality… I think all that is said there is true - especially the idea that being bi weakens both feminist and gay politics…
RE: “there can be concerns about the political implications [of bisexuality], with some lesbians seeing bisexuals as blurring boundaries/muddying the waters and potentially weakening the queer political cause. I’ve heard this called something like ‘diluting’ the movement.
This line of thought presupposes a definitive (and monolithic) “queer political cause” to begin with.
Find me any random group of queers and I’ll show you a group of squabbling gay/les/bi/trans folks who can’t even agree on simple matters. For example, some are working towards the legislation of same-sex marriage; some don’t believe that marriage is a valid institution for anyone; and some believe that queers should refrain from seeking marriage as a right because being queer means that one shouldn’t be about aping mainstream society. And so on and so forth. Queers can’t even agree on what the “movement” should entail, much less how to keep it “undiluted.” Queers can’t even agree on who should be considered “queer” or whether the word “queer” should still be used!
Bah! It’s all crap.
I can’t wait until people in general just treat others as individuals. But that may be too much to ask…
It probably isn’t accurate to say that biphobic gay/lesbian people see bisexuality as a threat to the ‘queer political cause’ - that is possibly too philosophical. I have definitely met a lot of older lesbians who think that way. From what I have seen myself, the general issue is quite basic; bisexual people threaten any ‘exclusive’ sexuality (’100%’ gay, ‘100%’ straight…) because it allows romantic competition from people who you can’t really compare yourself with… yet they have something you don’t…
Despite seeing, in my own experience, that gay/lesbian/bi/trans people often disagree on the purpose behind a united movement I think there are a lot of things that have been agreed on enough to have made a difference and created change e.g. student union groups improving equal opps at their university or at least raising the debate, the groups that have played an active part in bringing about significant changes in UK legislation over the past 10 years or so.
I remember being a young(er!) woman and coming out and meeting lots of new and interesting lesbian/gay/bi/trans people thinking wow… I then got a big shock when I started to see racism, biphobia, transphobia and general snobbishness amongst people who I expected to be open-minded, self-aware and fair. And then I realised that they are just people too - not gay superheroes with the weight of all prejudice in the world on their shoulders with a responsibility to eliminate all of it! I think some LGBT people do take that responsibility on though…believing they owe something to the world. That’s another story.
Great Article.
I was outed at school when I was 14 - not a great time for me. I never had any problems with my sexuality until I was 30 (I’m now 44) and could no longer ignore that I was attracted to men. Not only did I have to accomodate and readjust to this new phase in my life, I also had to cope with a lot of prejudice from the lesbian community. I encountered far more prejudice coming out as bisexual than I ever did as a lesbian - and it was from within the gay community that had been my support network for 15 years, at a time when I needed support. I’m nearly 45 now and really only now am I comfortable with who I am as a bisexual, but it’s no thanks to a peer group I once considered my extended family. Their loss.
I’ve known I was bisexual since I was 10-11 yrs old, but I’ve never had a relationship with a woman because I was always scared of being labelled as a tourist, bi-curious, etc and I didn’t want to mess anyone around. Now I’m settled with a man, but I’m a little sad that there’s a whole side of me that I just never fully acknowledged because I was scared of anti-bi prejudice…
this is so fucking bias.. your trying to prove every lesbian is bi.. uhm, that makes everything just that much harder.
“Actually, in a recent US study, two-thirds of self-defined lesbians reported feelings of attraction to men. Yikes.”
lady, your wrong. your wrong. Sure lesbians could be attracted to men… but hetersexual women can be attracted to women, and NEVER in their life act on it.
They’re all labels anyway. How do you know all those “lesbians” in the survey’s were a 10 on the “gay spectrum” HUH!
THIS IS BS!!
“Much as homophobia is often an indication of latent homosexual desire, perhaps gay and straight people are sometimes biphobic because they haven’t dealt with their own bisexual desires, and the thought of getting with a guy/girl both attracts and repels them.”
homophobic people aren’t secret gays, thats a myth. It’s about not understanding or accepting homosexuality… so biphobic gays aren’t secret bisexuals.
GET A LIFE.
thanks.
I think there are some practical reasons bisexual women have a hard time in lesbian community. I don’t think it’s biphobia particularly.
One real reason lesbians sometimes are mistrustful of bisexual women is the ‘femme factor’. As a lesbian femme, I have had a harder time meeting women because they’re not sure I’m lesbian, and would be mortified to hit on a straight gal. Bisexuality is similar, people don’t want to fall in love with someone who might be a risk.
Is a particular bisexual gal treating longer term relationships with women on the same terms with relationships with men? If so, then she’s safe to date, but if not, then it could lead to a particularly painful and unfair-feeling heartbreak if you fall for her. Many of us have had at least on disasterous crush on a ‘mostly straight’ woman early on, and don’t want to repeat what was often a very painful experience.
Being with a bisexual woman (and I have and would again if I was single, by the way) can be a reminder of the women early on who rejected us for a man, any man.
Another factor is how serious a given bisexual woman treats her relationships with women in comparison with men. Is sleeping with women just an occasional sexual break from a steady diet of men? Does this gal sleep with women, but wouldn’t consider marrying one? I’ve been attracted to men, but I prefer to love and relate to women, no contest. I’m pretty confident I’ll never sleep with another man, but if I did, liked it a lot and wanted to do it again, I’d probably label myself bisexual. However, if that ever happened, guys would be better off not dating me. I’d still be ‘mostly lesbian’, and could (as I did once upon a time) end up breaking men’s hearts, as romantic relationships with men just don’t affect me as deeply or matter as much to me.
I certainly understand not wanting to get hurt, but why would someone lump everyone into the same catagory based on their sexuality? I’ve been dumped by a guy for another woman, should I never date another man again? I’ve been dumped by a lesbian after she finally “got” that I really did id as bi. Should I never trust a lesbian again? Look at the individual, judge them by their actions, and throw the damn lables in the bin.
wahoo…agree with that, def ditch the labels, its all about trust of the person you are with, whether theyve been with men or women in their past!
When i came out (as a lesbian) alot of people couldnt understand it as ive slept with men! Truth is ive always had those feelings and happened to meet a great girl who i fell in love with! We are all capable of falling in love and as my mum says ‘you cant help who you fall for’ Some would say that makes me bisexual but i know (well 99% sure) that i wouldnt sleep with a man again as i really dont feel the attraction but who cares if people like both sexes? Aslong as people are happy, trustworthy and true who cares! Be what you want girls and be happy!
I totally agree that the labels should be ditched - they aren’t only damaging to those who are given them but also those struggling to associate with one. I have slept with and dated both men and women and am still completely up in the air as to which sex I would eventually ’settle down’ with. I know this makes both straight and gay people uneasy - even close friends try and encourage me one way or the other. When I first rejoined the scene, after a long-term relationship, I was held by the throat against the wall of a club and forced to answer questions such as, ‘When you masterbate do you think of women or men?’ It wasn’t pleasant…
I have wrote, re-wrote, and deleted my comment several times over because there is so much that I can relate which makes me feel quite compelled to go into it at length!
Countless couples I have called friends and can no longer look in the eye have assumed I’d be up for threesomes. Even the best friend I had through college, a gay male, had told me I was a part-timer and had simply going through a phase. I always felt that ‘if only I were a lesbian’ then I could come out to my mother! Or ‘if only I was straight’ and then I wouldn’t feel like such a whore’.
Certain attitudes have led me to keep my sexuality closely under wraps and have completely stunted my confidence when it comes to woman.
I feel very touched that this subject has had some light shed on it.
I have known I was bi since I was about 12 years old and, like Elle, spent years wishing I could ‘pick a team’ as one friend put it so I could fit in somewhere. After years of depression and self harm I have now come out, learned to accept myself, and have friends who value me for who I am not what I am. I have had a troubled marriage but even that has improved with my new found feelings of self worth. I agree with the general opinion - stop labelling things and people, we should be standing together against real issues not bickering and fighting within our own, so called, community
Biased article.
There ARE valid reasons why lesbians in some situations avoid bisexuals, especially during college years. Whether it is knowing you cant provide a partner with a particular thing they want, or trying to avoid straight girls who are experimenting without intentions of a relationship.
I am NOT saying that lesbians and bi’s cannot date successfully, or that bisexuals are somehow less that lesbians, what i am saying is that boiling it down to simple oppression is negating the truth of what alot of women go through.
felice - try substituting the words ‘lesbians’ and ‘bisexuals’ in your first sentence to something else, anything else… how about ‘men’ and ‘women’ erm, ‘those looking for a relationship’ and ‘those looking for a shag’, OK how about ’students’ and lectures’?!
I joke but the point I’m making is that there are reasons why lots of different people would avoid a person who was going to mess them around, not commit, use them to ‘experiment’. This does not mean the lesbians in your simplistic Lesbians Vs Bisexuals equation are always the ones with their heads sorted and the bisexual, experimenting, confused girls are the ones to take such sorted girls for a ride. Life just doesn’t work like that.
I know it’s a radical concept but how about judging a situation on the *person* and not some impersonal name for their sexuality devised by someone who obviously thought you could communicate who you were planning on sleeping with for the rest of you life, into one word.
Rant over. I loved the article.
Great article. Dead right I think about political suspicion of bi women. But there is more to it than that. There are problems thrown up by differeing social expectations.
I mix with a large number of bi women through a swingers club. Mostly like myself they have male partners though some are single. Mostly they are physically rather than emotionally bi and in any case are not emotionally available, being in relationships.
When we have gone to the Candy Bar or to women-only parties ( we have held some), the social interaction with lesbians has sometimes been awkward.
Firstly, we are after a bit of naughtiness for the night only and the lesbian women mostly seem to be looking for lurve rather than a roll in the hay.
Second, we are all very girly - which is sneered at by some lesbians - and have no idea about dress codes, sub-groups etc. Conversely, of course, the lesbians are not all of the lipstick variety.
Thirdly, lesbians have this politicised subculture which is of little interest to those who are not part of it.
Fourthly, bi girls often talk about their boyfriends, other men they fancy, weddings and children which can leave lesbians bewildered or even angry.
So there are all sorts of pitfalls in crossing the lesbian/bi divide. Having said that, the sex does work if you can get it!
I think the gay community hates bisexauls because there’s a lot of anger and jealousy. I am a lesbian and I think that the gay community views bisexuals as “gay when i want to be, straight when i want to be”. Which seems to be unfair given that not all civil rights are equal among both. It might be viewed as “hey, i can chose IF or WHEN i can have all my civil rights, unlike you, who have no choice in the matter. Sorry poor homo.” The gay community are in a fight for our rights at this momment in time. And its hard to relate to someone or have compassion for someone who appears to dip in and out of the community as they please. Because it seems, at the end of the day, they DO have the option to choose to be aptart of a minority who is in a fight for their rights or take the easy road. A road where the gay community doesn’t have the option of taking.
It’s interesting but very depressing that you use the word ‘hate’.
I don’t think it is defensible to ‘hate’ an individual or group because they ‘might be viewed as..’ something; I don’t think it is right to hate people because you imagine they have horrible thoughts in their heads (like ’sorry poor homo’!) without there beings some proof of those thoughts; and I defnitely know it is wrong to hate people because of their sexuality.
What a very, very depressing post. It makes lesbians out to be bitter and a bit…, well, I won’t say it.
Is there anyone who can say this ain’t so?
This is so bizarre and I’m glad my personal experience is slightly different. Yes I’m male, and I have met many friendly, sane lesbians whom I’ve gotten along with on a social basis and they seem to have had no problem with me being bi - either when I had boyfriends, or when I actually married a woman (before equal marriage became legal). I guess to some it’s a sense of insecurity but life is too short to be hating everyone.
Hela, I’m a 40ish woman, in a solid long term relationship with a man who is happy for me to have fun alone with women if I want. Because of the prejudices you address, and I’ve encountered previously, I’ve reluctantly never taken him up on the offer! I don’t want a long term relationship (although actually that’s not strictly true because I want the fun to be safe); and I’m not just experimenting or wanting to deceive or hurt anyone. I just know how I feel and what I want! It was great to read your response to this enlightening article and discover that ‘I am not alone…’ Now I just have to take a deep breath and find out where!
Cole - “the gay community views bisexuals as “gay when i want to be, straight when i want to be”. Which seems to be unfair given that not all civil rights are equal among both.” - Would you say this kind of thing to mixed race people? I doubt it. Bisexuals don’t *choose* to be that way, in the same way you don’t choose to be a lesbian.
“It might be viewed as “hey, i can chose IF or WHEN i can have all my civil rights, unlike you, who have no choice in the matter. Sorry poor homo.” ” I think this proves my point. You don’t have a choice. Bisexuals don’t have a choice of thir sexuality. Yes, bisexuals may slip by unnoticed in the straight world for having relations with another gender but that doesn’t mean it’s not just as difficult when dating someone of the same gender. Often on top of trying to validate their sexualities.But which bisexual ever wakes up one morning and decides “well, i fancy some civil rights today, I better go start looking for a man”?! You date who you wanna date and you do it for the person not for the civil rights you may or may not enjoy along the way. Oh yeah and just wanted to say, bisexuals *are* in a minority - whether they choose it or not - they’re in the bisexual minority… a minority inside another minority where they get grief from all angles. *You* are the one with the choice of supporting them or not.
Nice one, Claire. Bisexuals have it pretty hard! Although I do think that sometimes straight people (usually parents, friends of the person involved) are more willing to accept bisesxuality because that way they are able to assure themselves that it might just be a phase.
Reading another thread on this board, it turns out that as well as hating bi-women, lesbians also hate other lesbians if they have long hair.
That’s a lot of women-hating for a supposedly feminist subculture. If you add that to all the men they probably ‘hate’ you have a permanently pre-menstrual minority that enjoys hating people more than making friends and allies for itself.
And btw, remind me Cole of those
civil rights lesbians do not have? Obviously they have rights to marrry, adopt, live together, go to lesbian clubs, read lesbian magazines, watch lesbian porn and go on lesbian holidays. They are also not denied the vote or employment, not jailed or stoned or even ridiculed in the streets.
Perhaps it simply more fun to feel like victims.
As a girl in a long term relationship with a man but had previous relationships with women i fully relate to this. Having spent much of my youth being attracted to both men and women as well as having relationships with both, i decided that instead of labelling myself bi/gay/straight, that if i meet the right person regardless of their sex i could be in a long happy relationship with them.
John, f off I hate you.
*quote* “hate other lesbians if they have long hair” *quote*
I suppose your reffering to the comon steriotype of ‘dykes’ and ‘lipstick lesbains. Are you serious?
I dont think lesbians hate Bi’s i think lesbians who want a relationship dont like people who use them as experiments.
That’s a cheek Lydia! If I like coffe and tea, I’m not ‘experimenting’ with tea when I’m not drinking coffee. I just fancy tea right then. End of story.
In my case, I’m not looking for a relationship with a woman (though I might be, if I was ever to be single again). And if a lesbian says she doesn’t want to have a loving relationship with a bi woman because the bi woman has twice as many alternative temptations and anyway may in the end find it simply easier to go with the flow and end up in a hetero relationship, then I can see the rationality in that.
But, and it is a big BUT: what’s wrong with casual sex? I don’t see how any of those reservaations applying to casual sex with bi women. Surely lesbians aren’t so pre-feminist that there’s a strong current against casual sex?
I don’t necessarily think it’s reasonable for someone to not want to be with a bi woman because she has ‘twice as many temptations’ because that implies more to do with insecurity and lack of trust in general, regardless of orientation. It shouldn’t matter whether a bi person has more choice in the population overall - more ‘temptations’, if you’re monogamous then you’re monogamous and anyone who thinks bisexuals are more of a ‘risk’ because they’re more likely to cheat might want to look at their trust issues….
Casual sex / loving long term relationship / open relationship / whatever…it’s about defining what both parties want and trusting eachother, it doesn’t matter if you’re a girl/boy/gay/straight/bi… psh.
I dont mean all bi women are experimenting! Obiously not. I mean young people who just experiment, as you do, and hurt other people who throught they where in for a relationship. Casual sex is great as long as both parties no that thats all it is.
There you go again being hateful and patronising, Lydia!
Why do you say I am “just experimenting”? That’s what I did when I was a teenager and a student. In the last 3 years I’ve had sex with over 50 women and the boyfriend of 35 of them. I am old enough to know what I like. Claiming I am ‘experimenting’ is just an insulting way of trying to belittle bi women. We’re here, get used to it!
I THINK EVERY ONE HAS A STORY TO TELL WHEN IT TO BISEXUALITY.I HAD ALWAYS BEEN ATTRACTITED TO GIRLS. MY FIRST KISS WAS WITH A GIRL I WAS 13. BUT TOO AFRAID OF BRAKING MY MOMS HEART.SO AFTER THREE YEARS OF BEIN WITH EACOTHER I BROKE UP . I MISSED HER AND THINK ABOUT HER BUT STILL NEVER HAD THE GUTS TOO LOOK FOR HER AND TELL HER. AT 17 YRS OLD I MET MY NOW HUDSBAND.I AM 31 YEARS OLD I HAD TO GO THRU A BREAK DOWN EMOTIANILY I WAS DESTROYED .IT WAS A POINT IN MY LIFE I NEVER TAUGHT I WOULD HAVE . I WAS CRAVING TO BE WITH A GIRL TO KISS HER HUG, HER TO SMEEL HER SWEET SCENT.SO I WENT FOR IT MET SOMEONE AND FINALY HAD SOME GUTS TO COME OUT TO MY HUSBAND .HE HAD A PRBLEM WITH THIS AT FIRST BUT NOT NO MORE.HE UNDERSTAND MY SITUATION.NOW THAT AT LEAST HE KNOWS I FEEL SO LUCKY TO HAVE HIM.
I know so many women in Patty’s situation in my swingers club.
Hi all, i have just stumbled across this site and i have been reading through some of the posts, this one paticulary intrigued me,
i am very confused as to what i get classed as, lesbians say i am bi, and bi women say i am a lesbian, basically i have always been attracted to women, from a very young age, but my family are very funny about things like that, so in the end to make things easier, i stopped seeing women, and started dating men,
i never once fancied a man, but then i met lee, i fell in love with him instantly, i have no idea why it was different with him, but it is.
mens bodies repulse me, i turn away if i see a man with his clothes off, but with lee, i love every single thing about him, he is 6 foot 4 inches and weighs 18 stone, he looks very manly, so i am even more confused as to why i fell in love with him and not a fem looking man, all i know is i am incredibly happy i fell in love with him,
i still find women attractive, and lee knows about my sexuality, and he doesnt care, he just wants me to be happy, which i am.
but i just dont know what people would lable me as, i dont like lables, i explain to people about my sexuality when asked, as i like to keep my hair short etc,
i am so very confused by it all, i love my partner and want to be with him, but i am still incredibly attracted to other women, i havent been with a woman for many years now, and i do miss being with a woman, but i would never be willing to give lee up for one, but even though we have a fantastic sex life, other men still do nothing for me, but women always do, i think about them all the time hehehe, so does that make me a lesbian, bi, straight or just incredibly lucky for finding someone to love me for me?
I can appreciate some of the entries I have been reading here. I am what some of the population refers to as a major “Lipstick Lesbian.” I have been made to feel as though there is something wrong with me on more than one occasion. The last such time occurred about 2 months ago while camping with 3 other girls who are lesbian..2 of them being a married couple. The third girl had a long standing crush on me but has never done anything about it. While camping, I had to listen to ignorant comments about me and how I’m so “girly”..and even at one point I was shouted at in exasperation,”God,you;re such a GIRL!” Hmmm..my immediate response was…”Well fuck, aren’t Lesbians SUPPOSED to like GIRLS?” I am tired of the way I have been treated because of ridiculous labels and people’s warped views. I know I am a LESBIAN…I’ve know ALL OF MY LIFE….Just because I have long hair,wear make-up,etc.etc.does NOT make me any less of a LESBIAN than anyone other! I sympathize with those Bisexuals who feel as though they are not being treated fairly….I say screw em’ all if they cannot accept who and what you are!!! CHEERS!
Lol! John, I’m not sure what country you live in(not saying it sarcasticly, seriously) but the USA only has two states are allowing gays to wed!!! Mass. and Cali.and if you don’t count the right to wed as a civil rights issue then please tell me what is. Being gay is not illegal in the US but the right to live the rest of ones life in a happy legally binding relationship is illegal for American gays. I already said IN MY PREVIOUS POSTING that i think the gay community is jealous and angry over rights that we can not have soley based on the fact that I’m not sexually attracted to the opposite sex. My blunt and unsugar-coated answer to why the gay community doesn’t like bisexuals is because we are jealous, bitter and angry. MY OPINION ONLY. Point blank. My honest, hard, sad,unsatisfactory answer to the question: Bitter and Angery. Bitter and Angry. Bitter and Angry. Thats your answer. You can get mad if you want, I’m sure a lot will disagree and have the wonderful right to. But I feel it is sad and true. That is something as a community that we MUST work on.
Hey John unsurprisingly lesbians are an international phenomenon(read not just western phenomenon). In this light I would just like to point out that apart from South Africa, every state in Africa and many across Asia and the Middle Eeast count homosexuality (including lesbianism) as illegal - the price you pay for being who you are is anywhere from imprisonment to a public stoning or hanging. Based on this I would say one or two civil rights are definitly missing wouldn’t you?
ps By the by wed = civil union/paretenership not marriage, the politically correct understanding being to refer to this as seperate but equal. Yeah right!
Cole, I’m British. Sorry I thought this was a British site because of the .co.uk. So you’re in the US which is a bit more backward. OK. I still totally disrespect the phenomenon that you are outlining: that feeling peeved at their own treatment - however justifiably - US lesbians are bitter towards people who are NOT oppressing them, like some immature teenager lashing out at innocent third parties because she is in a bad mood. It’s just the sort of politics reactionaries used to say made women unfit for the vote.
Shakeymoneymaka, fair point. Pity US lesbians choose to dwell on their own 80% full rights instead of the 0% of rights of most of the women of the world who are treated like cattle, beasts of burden or sexual slaves and sometimes even have their clits cut off. But never mind them, lets concentrate on the last remaining obstacle to total equality in the West.
As a lesbian (in a Civil Partnership) who used to be in a straight marriage with a man, I find biphobia incomprehensible. No one ever heard the saying “People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones”?
People should love who they love. It’s not for anyone else to criticise them. And who are these Label Police who decide what people with a particular label can feel, think or do?
Kinsey discovered in the 1950s that the majority of people had bisexual feelings, whether or not they acted on them. It’s not news. I’m amazed anyone’s still arguing about it!
I know a lot, (I repeat A LOT) of bisexual people and 99% all married to or in a relationship with the opposite sex, some have kids, and are “swingers” behind closed doors. They can be seen as “straight” in public and be accepted because they don’t have to “come out”, but they can still get their sexual “kicks” and no one has to know about it. If that works for them, that’s great - they can do what they please and they deserve to be happy. I, however, want to be with one person forever (yes, I’m a lesbian, in fact I’m one of those “gold stars” the article pokes fun about). I’ve tried my hand at dating bisexuals a few times. The relationship starts out great, but then they start asking for 3somes with a man or they want to have an “open-relationship”. It all goes down hill from there…
“I dont think lesbians hate Bi’s i think lesbians who want a relationship dont like people who use them as experiments.”
VERY agreed. I do my best not to hate anyone - especially for their orientation, as I know what that feels like. But it is tiring getting hit on by girls with boyfriends who just want a night of “fun” and then they run back to their man. If you’re bisexual, you’re bisexual, if you’re gay, you’re gay and if you’re straight, you’re straight. Whatever makes you happy. But bisexual women who are in relationships with men should GIVE OUT the respect to lesbian women that they expect lesbian women to GIVE
BACK to them.
Like, don’t write us all off as “bisexual haters”, especially if you don’t know our own personal experences. That’s stereotyping us because you’re afraid we’ll stereotype you. It’s also probably not a great idea to go up to a lesbian and talk about your boyfriend or how you and your boyfriend like having 3somes. I find that offensive because, being asked for 3somes before by male/female couples (they STILL ask eventhough they know I’m a lesbian), it makes me feel like I’m a sex object to them. They just want me for one night then they’re going to ditch me and probably go have one with another girl. It hurts, and it’s not a great thing to brag about, much less talk about when you’re around lesbians.
“Just because I have long hair,wear make-up,etc.etc.does NOT make me any less of a LESBIAN than anyone other!”
I LOVE girly lesbian’s! In fact, I have a hard time finding girls because I’m only attracted to very femme women and most of the femme women are either straight or bi and taken :’(
L.C. you make some good comments. I do think personally that society’s homophobia puts enormous pressure on people to live “straight” lives. It affects an awful lot of completely gay/lesbian people (I lived in the closet, in a hetero relationship for many years, largely due to this pressure), let alone bisexual people.
I don’t like to generalise, but with so much pressure against living in a lesbian relationship, it isn’t surprising that those who feel they have a choice, may eventually opt for a hetero relationship.
Then again, everyone’s different - I am sure there are many bisexual women who do settle into happy relationships with a female partner. But I also think we need to understand why others can’t.
Personally, I believe we should blame our homophobic society.
I’ve been reading all these comments with real interest. As a bisexual young woman I have faced so many complications as far as my sexuality and gender identity goes, and it’s hard not to get angry at the rest of the world sometimes, because it gives me a break from being angry at myself for not fitting in anywhere. In my experience, if you find a subculture (LGBT, gothic, fetish, whatever) that suits you, you can find friends and partners relatively easily, but it does mean if you have feelings that go against your group culture then you face difficulties. Heck, I like men AND women, I’m good at arts AND science, I eat vegan food AND steak, I like going to gigs AND waking up without a hangover or neurological impairment the next morning. My goodness, do I piss people off. I spread confusion and anger just by being myself, and I KNOW it. I don’t hate others because they can’t understand me, I don’t even really understand myself. I find that men get angry with me if I don’t want to randomly sleep with them, and find that women get angry if I accidentally glance at their breasts. Do I like being this way? Of course not. I wish I could find one thing and stick to it, truncate half of my identity and find peace and a place where I’m accepted for who I am (or who I become once I limit myself in order to be accepted). But I can’t, because a part of me is really attracted to beautiful, feminine women, a part of me really loves the intellectual and physical qualities of masculinity - and I’m neither, I have none of those qualities myself. Some straight men think that bisexual women are kinky, which is maybe true but only a part of it. I’m human, I feel so much pain and suffering because of my orientation, my image, my beliefs, my identity - even though these are things I was born with and therefore cannot change. Best of both worlds? Yeah right…
Very interesting Maya.
I have a bi male friend who regards himself as cursed because whenever he is in a relationship with a man he is gradually overwhelmed with the need for a woman; and vice versa. And I guess that can be the same for some women who are bi, especially the emotionally bi.
I’m a member of a swingers club for young people, there are hundreds of bi women involved, 95%+ of us must be bi. 90% are with men and about 10% are single. Just a couples of couples are women andd they are bi rather than lesbian. The men let us have sex together whenever we want to do it without them.
I tend to think this arrangement is the best that a bi woman can do. Men - I mean the right sort of man - seem much more cool about me having it with a girl than a lesbian would about me having it with a man (or a girl).
But I guess this only works if you find a liberal guy and you are OK with casual sex. I can see it might not work for an emotionally bi woman.